Magnolia ([info]magnolia888) wrote,
@ 2007-01-29 15:03:00
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Current mood: amused
Entry tags:heroes

We can be Heroes
EW asks: Who should be killed off Heroes? (Spoilers, I guess. But nothing solid is revealed.)

"Someone is Mo-hindering my ability to enjoy the show!"

Heh.

I keep wanting to love this show like so many people do. But the clunky dialogue, uneven and downright bad acting gets in the way. It's still fun, though.


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[info]r_a_l_i_g_h
2007-01-29 08:20 pm UTC (link)
I enjoy the show. A lot. I don't think I love it. I might have been on the verge of loving it, I may come to love it fully in the future. There are certainly parts and elements (and characters!!!) that I absolutely love. (If this was the "Odd Couple Heroes: The Hiro and Nathan Show" I would SOOOO love it!)

I have come to learn that an amazing story can't keep me interested fulltime if I don't love at least SOME of the characters, (and can stand the rest). However, the reverse is NOT true. If I love all the characters (or at least am fascinated by them) than I'm willing to put up with a LOT of errors, plotwise.

Right now Heroes is win some, lose some in both catagories. But thankfully it's a large enough ensemble cast that I can kind of ignore or skim over the losses, and it KNOCKS THEM OUT OF THE PARK on the wins.

All of which means, I'll be sticking around.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 08:28 pm UTC (link)
I'll be sticking around, too. I have little time for TV lately, but I'm saving up Heroes to watch when I can find the time. Hiro alone makes it worthwhile.

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[info]miniglik
2007-01-29 08:25 pm UTC (link)
I keep wanting to love this show like so many people do. But the clunky dialogue, uneven and downright bad acting gets in the way. It's still fun, though.

I feel ya, sister. It's just so ... CLUNKY. Like they stole emotional exposition dialogue from some really bad Lifetime movies. Or maybe Saved by the Bell: The College Years. (Oh, maybe they share emotional exposition dialogue writers with Supernatural, which at least has mostly better acting.)

But otherwise I like it. I like the ideas, I like Hiro (see, he can talk like a comic book because it's what he's trying for, where as Nathan or Matt doing it doesn't really work). I like the superpowers and the plotlines and the visuals. If only the dialogue and acting were better.



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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 08:29 pm UTC (link)
I like the superpowers and the plotlines and the visuals. If only the dialogue and acting were better.

Exactly. The plotlines and visuals are great. They know how to do cliffhangers, yadda yadda yadda.

But I would have preferred the casting director to put more emphasis on people who can ACT and less on "pretty people."

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[info]miniglik
2007-01-29 08:33 pm UTC (link)
It's true. And I'm such a snob about my shows -- I tend to only like shows with really good casts, so something like Heroes stands out like a sore thumb.

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 08:26 pm UTC (link)
"Someone is Mo-hindering my ability to enjoy the show!"
Heeeee!! That's great. As much as he bugs, I don't think he should be killed off because he's an important counterbalance, being one of the few main characters who doesn't have powers.

I don't really notice anything bad about the dialogue or the acting because I'm taken in by the coolness of everything else. I like the way the show is shot. It's very filmic.

I can't figure out who should be killed off. I guess they feel like killing off someone is necessary. I guess D.L. He's not that useful or important. I have a feeling Ando may bite it along the way, which would be sad but would spur Hiro on. I like the Xander Factor, though...although, honestly, Ando hasn't really proved himself that useful beyond companionship.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 08:31 pm UTC (link)
I loved the "Mo-hinder" line also. Seriously, he's cute and all, but that guy can not act worth a hill o' beans.

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[info]miniglik
2007-01-29 08:38 pm UTC (link)
You'd think it'd be possible to find pretty AND a good actor.

Seriously, there's like a zillion hot men in Hollywood.

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 08:51 pm UTC (link)
A zillion hot INDIAN men, though?

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[info]miniglik
2007-01-29 08:53 pm UTC (link)
At least some! Plus, half of being hot is the acting and the character. (For instance, I was awed by Mohinder's hotness for the first few episodes, but now... he's so BLECK.)

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 08:56 pm UTC (link)
Yes! Greg Grunberg isn't "hot" by most people's estimation, but he's an appealing actor imho and that makes him "cute" at least.

(And I know I'm gonna get it for this, but I've never thought the actor in my icon was all that "hot" either. It's his talent that makes him hot imho.)

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[info]miniglik
2007-01-29 09:05 pm UTC (link)
You're not going to "get it" from me. I never thought he was attractive (except maybe his back in the middle of the second season), and now he's lost the charisma factor for me. In fact, I've recently purged my Logan icons.


John Krasinski's in that camp for me, however. I never thought he was hot in icons or promos, but now that I've finally REALLY gotten into The Office I have trouble not staring at him. How can all those enormous features come together to look so adorable?

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:11 pm UTC (link)
Krasinski is the perfect example! Most people, when shown a photograph of him, are not going to say "wow, that dude is hot!" (Cute maybe, but not hot.)

But JIM? Everybody's favorite TV boyfriend! And a zillion posts about how HOT he is!! (See icon!) Because Krasinski is talented and he makes Jim such a wonderfully appealing character. (Well, the writing helps, too.)

Why can't casting directors get this? I think it's one reason (one of many) why The Office succeeded where Coupling failed. The casting directors of The Office were looking for talented and funny over "hot enough to be on magazine covers."

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[info]miniglik
2007-01-29 09:23 pm UTC (link)
Have you ever seen Krasinski's thread at TWOP? Those women would swear he is the Best Looking Man on Earth. Now, I'm not gonna lie, he's cute enough I'd date him in real life, but he's well below the "calendar appeal" of most men on television. It's the acting. And the writing. And I'd take John Krasinski on my screen over, say, Chad Michael Murray any day of the week.


We all know the Duncan v. Logan thing, and how that panned out.

However, I kind of feel the same way about actresses. I'm so sick of vanilla blank canvas actresses in every role. 90% of the time you know she'll be thin, with flawless skin and boring hair and perfectly straight teeth. And they'll put bucketloads of makeup on her and hours of hair work. And you end up with the cast of Desperate Housewives. Very pretty but unremarkable women under boatloads of makeup. I wanna see girls with freckles, or big hips, or gap teeth, or split ends. They can still be hot. And they're just a TAD visually interesting.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:28 pm UTC (link)
Have you ever seen Krasinski's thread at TWOP?

I think I was there once, and once was enough. I had flashbacks to the Wentworth Miller thread and I got out of there fast. Scary. *Shudder*

Those women would swear he is the Best Looking Man on Earth.

I know they would say that, but I don't believe it for one minute. He was in Kinsey, and nobody was writing about how hot that guy in Kinsey was. Please.

I'm so sick of vanilla blank canvas actresses in every role.

ITA. I'd like to think that America Ferrera was starting a trend, but I know that's wishful thinking. She's absolutely adorable, but she would never have been cast as the lead role in any typical show that didn't have the word "ugly" in the title. She's gonna lose out to the Mischa Bartons and Kristin Kreuks of the world.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 08:54 pm UTC (link)
But does he have to be "HOT" necessarily? Can't they just find an Indian dude of average-or-better appearance who can ACT?

The show has other pretty people, they don't all have to be "hot." And I know there are lots of Indian dudes (or reasonable facsimiles, see Sayid as Indian-playing-Iraqi, etc.) who can act. I'm not up on my Bollywood dudes, but I know there are a lot of them!

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[info]eolivet
2007-01-29 08:28 pm UTC (link)
But the clunky dialogue, uneven and downright bad acting gets in the way.

Oh, reading that blog gives voice to my very thoughts...the list of people on that show I want to punch in the face is long indeed (and Mohinder is one of them).

And Ali Larter CANNOT ACT. AT ALL. Seriously! At ALL. And her dumb kid reminds me of Walt on "Lost." Except Walt is 10 times cooler (and scarier!).

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 08:53 pm UTC (link)
And Ali Larter CANNOT ACT. AT ALL.
Whoa, I have to violently disagree with you here, as I think she's doing an amazing job with Niki/Jessica. It's weird that I've seen such diametrically opposed reactions to her acting.

And her dumb kid reminds me of Walt on "Lost."
No, Micah's great! I like him.

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[info]eolivet
2007-01-29 09:14 pm UTC (link)
It's weird that I've seen such diametrically opposed reactions to her acting.

Oh, really? Wow, until I read the comments on the blog and some of the ones here, I thought I was the only one. :x To borrow from someone else above, I get such a "Lifetime Movie of the Week" vibe from her performance. Seems overwraught, to me.

And since I am pre-disposed to look for the similarities between "Lost" and "Heroes," the kid and Niki's husband bother me even more. They're like Michael and Walt lite, to me.

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 09:16 pm UTC (link)
To borrow from someone else above, I get such a "Lifetime Movie of the Week" vibe from her performance. Seems overwraught, to me.
I think that sometimes, as Niki, she's a little Lifetime. But I'm far too impressed by the subtle shifts she makes as Jessica to care. Her face, her entire manner changes, and you can tell just by looking at her that she's become Jessica. I think it's awesome.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:19 pm UTC (link)
I know she makes a concerted effort to let the audience see the difference between the two, but I guess I don't find the shifts all that "subtle."

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 08:58 pm UTC (link)
I'm not a fan of Ali Larter either. I don't think she's as noticeably bad as Mo-hinder (my ability to enjoy the show), but I haven't been impressed.

But then again, I've never liked her much so that undoubtedly colors my impression of her here.

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[info]amaria
2007-01-29 08:33 pm UTC (link)
Which actors do you consider to be the weak ones?

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:01 pm UTC (link)
I think the weakest by far is Mohinder, but I'm not impressed with Ali Larter or Milo Ventimiglia either.

Hiro rocks and I think Hayden Panetierre is surprisingly good as Claire. I already liked Grunberg and Pasdar, but they haven't been asked to do all that much yet. (I haven't seen the most recent episode, but TiVo is saving it for me.)

Simone and the artist dude and the others haven't made much of an impression on me either way.

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[info]eolivet
2007-01-29 09:16 pm UTC (link)
I think the weakest by far is Mohinder, but I'm not impressed with Ali Larter or Milo Ventimiglia either.

Hiro rocks and I think Hayden Panetierre is surprisingly good as Claire.

OMG, get out of my mind! ;) And I don't care for Pasdar yet, but I know he's capable of more, too.

Grunberg's partner drags him down, IMHO. :p

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 09:17 pm UTC (link)
Hey! Don't be dissing Clea Duvall! It's his damn WIFE that drags him down.

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[info]eolivet
2007-01-29 09:30 pm UTC (link)
Oh my goodness, that's the sister from "Wonderfalls??"

(OK, I take it back...it's the writing for those two that drags him down. The actress was quite engaging on WF. :)

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 09:35 pm UTC (link)
Oh my goodness, that's the sister from "Wonderfalls??"
Oh, no, that's not what I used the icon. Heh. Clea Duvall was Marcie in "Invisible Girl" so automatically has a certain cache, but she's just generally cool and is a good actress. Who sometimes gets decapitated by John Carpenter.

The sister from WF was Katie Finneran, for the record, most recently seen (or not seen) on The Inside.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:37 pm UTC (link)
I remember Clea Duvall from "Invisible Girl" also. And Girl, Interrupted. I have no problem with her, but she isn't given much to work with.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:22 pm UTC (link)
And I don't care for Pasdar yet, but I know he's capable of more, too.

Yes. I know some people don't like his character, but I know Pasdar can act. I just don't think he's been given much chance to show it.

And I don't buy him and Milo as brothers, but that seems to be a casting issue.

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[info]alittlepunchy
2007-01-29 08:51 pm UTC (link)
I keep hearing how fabulous the show is, and I have the first two episode but I have yet to watch them. I don't know...I haven't even heard anything about the show other than who's in it and "how great it is!"

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 08:57 pm UTC (link)
It's elaborately plotted (there's a setup in the first couple episodes that doesn't pay off until six or seven episodes later), it's beautifully shot, it caters to comic-book geekery, it's about DUDES WITH SUPERPOWERS OMG, there are shady figures of questionable morality, characters grapple with identity issues and how to define themselves in light of their abilities, it cliffhangs with the best of them, and it's pretty much made of awesome. The end.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:04 pm UTC (link)
it caters to comic-book geekery

I think that's it right there. I'm clearly not the target audience for this show and the things that make it "great" for some people don't really do it for me.

I need good writing and acting along with my "gee whiz, that's cool!", two things that are in short supply. It's not that it's "bad" necessarily, but it could be so much better than it is with a better cast and dialogue that is a little more polished.

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 09:12 pm UTC (link)
I think that it could be better with those elements improved, sure, but I, personally, think it's good enough as is.

My catering comment was mostly about such things as the title cards and various elements/references. I don't think the show as a whole caters to comic-book geeks specifically because they can't be the target audience. The show would not be this popular if only comic-book geeks were watching. There's something else there, and I'm not sure what it is. But NBC found themselves an unexpected hit, and they're milking it like hell. LOADS of online content. It's pretty fun.

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[info]wee_warrior
2007-01-29 09:29 pm UTC (link)
I think it's more like a translation. They took a lot of comic book elements and comic book storytelling elements and put them into a form that people found more accessible than capes and endlessly angsting meta-beings. Superhero comics kinda did the same with myths, they translated them to be more accessible to adolescent boys, because the real stuff was considered too highbrow. If Heroes went out to claim they were doing a modern version of various mythologies TPTB would have been laughed at, but a comic book as a TV show somehow works fine.

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[info]spectralbovine
2007-01-29 09:32 pm UTC (link)
You're a smart girl. I like you.

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[info]wee_warrior
2007-01-29 09:52 pm UTC (link)
Aww. I like you, too. Even though you secretly worship the COW OF PAIN!

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[info]alittlepunchy
2007-01-29 09:40 pm UTC (link)
Hehe...thanks Sunil. I'll probably still check it out so that I can say I've seen it, but I'm not a big "comic-book geekery" person. However, I watch a lot of stuff I never thought I'd watch, so I'll still give it a shot!

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[info]wee_warrior
2007-01-29 08:56 pm UTC (link)
First comment was eaten. Gotta love lj.

"But the clunky dialogue, uneven and downright bad acting gets in the way."

Funny, isn't it? I can see all you mention above - even though I reserve the bad acting medal for a chosen few of the cast - and yet I adore the show. However, I could argue almost the same for Supernatural, only that I object more to their simplistic writing, and that one I gave up because it really bores me. I guess I'm more into mainstream comic than horror/road movie/blue collar male identity storytelling. Or I just need an ensemble cast. *shrugs*

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:15 pm UTC (link)
I can see all you mention above - even though I reserve the bad acting medal for a chosen few of the cast - and yet I adore the show.

I definitely understand why many people adore it. It has a lot going for it, the superpowers are interesting, it's jam-packed with entertaining twists and turns, etc.

I just wish that it were *better* than it is, because it truly could be fantastic if it weren't for that pesky acting problem. And the clunky dialogue, but even that could be sold by a better cast.

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[info]wee_warrior
2007-01-29 09:20 pm UTC (link)
"I just wish that it were *better* than it is, because it truly could be fantastic if it weren't for that pesky acting problem. And the clunky dialogue, but even that could be sold by a better cast."

I do agree, but some of the weaker cast members might improve (it happens. See Grace Park: in BSG Season 1 I always felt she was a little overwhelmed by her task, but she steadily improved upon that.). And as I watched Tim Kring's previous, er, "masterpiece," I am aware that killing off characters that don't work/have weak actors isn't an empty threat for him, so I'm guessing the EW guy will get his wish sooner than later.

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[info]julia_ma
2007-01-29 09:06 pm UTC (link)
I like Mohinder. Simone should be killed off.

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[info]magnolia888
2007-01-29 09:20 pm UTC (link)
I doubt anyone would even notice if Simone were killed off.

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[info]sinca
2007-01-29 11:46 pm UTC (link)
Even though she's not a big part of the show, my guess for the kill off is Simone.

I have issues with Heroes, too, enough of them to get me to not look forward to the eps and and eventually stop watching. It is the acting partially, but I think the pacing kind of puts me off, too.

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[info]zimshan
2007-01-30 12:55 am UTC (link)
HAHA. Mo-hindering! I love that! I really REALLY wish he was more dispensible so he could get killed off.

But yea, I sort of can't find the love either. Now that the initial OoO!FUN! factor of Heroes has wanned, I'm finding myself loosing patience with it. The thing that bugs me is, you can have weak acting. Or you can have weak writing. One can make up for another. BUT TO HAVE BOTH? Just makes me laugh and point and throw rocks, and ultimately leads to holding my head in pain. Not matter how much fun the plot twists are.

As the show goes on, it seems to really be falling into the Lost Trap. Having a super huge cast where all their energy is divided up into little boxes makes the show really all over the place. Moving SUPER slow in the real time of the show. Adding MORE people. Publicized killings. SHOCK plots that end up being nothing. Except back in S1 at least Lost had good dialogue. I'm still watching every week for Hiro. But I don't really understand the huge love for it.

Then again, my brain has been eaten by the big monster that is Supernatural. So that might be a factor too. Heh.

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